What your words said was that I'd have to go into a time machine to give them adequate warning. My point was that 2 years is adequate warning. You guys said they gave NO warning, but they have.

I understand all that, obviously, because I disagree with their decision to revoke the lifetime certs. They do state quite clearly that they can change their certification program at any time - again, giving me adequate warning. Doesn't mean I have to be happy with their decision... but they did warn me.

Actually, it has always been my opinion that you should read TP agreements quite carefully and never assume ANYTHING. And if you don't do your research, you'll often get burned. Once you've signed that agreement... well, you're probably gonna get exactly what's spelled out in the terms of that agreement (which is probably not the thing in your head that you THINK you're getting). Same thing applies here. Sucks that it happened... but we signed on, knowingly or unknowingly.

Did I read the stack of paperwork given to me when I got a mortgage for my house? You betcha... every single time.

It's the approach MS takes now... but it's not the approach MS took back in the NT/2000 days. They were going to expire the NT certs, and there was such an uproar that Microsoft backed down and changed their policy.

Will CompTIA do the same thing? Unlikely; they say it's to achieve ISO compliance. I'd rather they ditch ISO compliance and maintain good will with their previous cert holders.

But IS it a retroactive change to their contract? After all, you were the one who revealed the exact wording that CompTIA published regarding the fact that they can change the terms of their certs at any time. It might be a change in what we THOUGHT we were getting... but according to your own words, they were pretty clear about what they could and could not do. Doesn't mean you shouldn't be upset about it... but they did make it clear.

Subnetting on Cisco routers, yes.

There's really not that much OSI model on Cisco's exams anymore. And even assuming it's still there - okay, that's ONE bit of overlap. I can point out that much overlap between Microsoft's server exams and Cisco's exams.

Most people tend to assume these are 'catch all' terms to cover the vendor if they want to change a small detail of their policy.

I agree with the general advice of 'read the smallprint', however modern peoples lives have become very hectic and very complicated. We have contracts for landline, mobile, gas, electricity, internet, credit cards, bank acounts, certifications, insurance policies, tickets, software licenses, warranties, pensions, loans, mortgages, who can honestly say they read all the 20 odd pages of small print in each of these contracts and fully understand it every time ? Its not practical to show every contract to a lawyer.

A contract for a large financial amount like a pension, loan or a mortgage, yes people will probably read it. A contract with a value less than £200, they probably are going to just skim it.

How many people have read the full terms of the software license of every piece of software on their computer ? How many have read the full terms to every certification test ?

Reading one does not mean it won't have changed the next time, so you would have to read the full contract each time. I am frequently sent contract amendments for credit cards and bank accounts as they change regulations because of the credit crunch.

In reality what protects us in many cases is the law, consumer rights, trading standards, advertising standards, etc.

Generally the selling, marketing and advertising also forms some sort of contract and should represent what will be delivered and what is in the final contract.

Many people do not think ISO is at all related to the changes and in fact many ISO policies relate to keeping the customers on board and treating them fairly.

That's what people get for assuming. Get bitten enough, and they'll stop assuming.

Again, to make it painfully clear, I am not justifying CompTIA's decision - I think it was a crappy thing to do.

No excuse - that's just laziness. When you sign on the dotted line, you assume the risk if you don't read carefully.

You don't have to have a lawyer. Just READ it with a critical eye.

Get bitten enough, and you start reading.

If that is indeed the case - and I agree that it is with most people - why is this decision such a big deal to you people if a £200 "agreement" is just worth a skim? If £200 is important, read it.

The terms were laid out there. Should they have put it in bold flashing red letters, perhaps? They didn't hide it. Most people just assumed (there's that word again) that CompTIA wouldn't do anything this drastic.

Every piece? I don't for every piece, but I do for many, particularly for those in which I want to know the copyrights granted to me by the publisher. And I do read the full terms to every cert test. Then again, it is in my best interest to, so I'm likely an exception.

Just because there are ISO policies that relate to customers doesn't mean there aren't ISO standards that relate to training. There are indeed ISO standards that relate to training, and I believe recertification (or credential maintenance) is one of the stipulations. Whether the ISO standard compliance actually IS the reason for the change or just a masked excuse is certainly up for debate (and the answer to which will not likely be known to anyone outside of CompTIA).

QFT.

It was a crappy thing to do, and morally wrong, regardless of whether we should read the small print or dot the Is and cross the Ts. You don't expect, as someone taking a certitifcation (probably your first one) to get screwed by the vendor. Regardless of what the small print says, at the time it was sold to me as a 'lifetime' certification. Thus, that's what it should be.

Sure, bring in changes (after consultation) but do not make them retrospective to include certifications already held.

I actually registered here to be able to reply.

I understand the unhappiness that this has caused a lot of people but in all honesty, does it really matter? I sat the Sec+ a number of years ago so that it would count towards my MCSE:Security cert. since then I haven't had to call upon the actual certification for any of my jobs (I WAS asked to provide my transcript for my MCSE recently).

In the grand scheme of things Comptia don't "really" count, never in 12 years of working in IT have I had to really worry about Comptia certifications, not once have I been asked to prove I had the cert to employers so to my mind it was nice to have it but I won't be bothering to renew it. As has previously been mentioned, it's an intro exam, it's a get your feet in the door one to get under the belt, there are far bigger and better certs to get the more experience you have.

Simon, you are missing many fundamental points to do with honesty and integrity.

If I buy a bike and I later buy a car, does that mean I should now give my bike back to the shop that sold it to me ?

It's mine, I own it under the initially agreed terms, I can use it as I see fit within those terms.

If the CompTIA certs are so crap and of no use, why does anyone advise taking them ? Why do they cost so much and why do they need re-certification ?

Its a circular argument.

CompTIA certs were one way of avoiding the 'Cert-treadmill' you describe, precisely because they were closer to academic qualifications in that they did not expire. They are now closer to some of the highest maintenance, highest cost certifications even though as you mention they are some of the lowest valued.

I for one plan to get off the 'Cert-treadmill' now, it appears all I am doing is wasting valuable time and giving valuable money to companies that really could not give a toss, in order to get a piece of paper to show to other companies, that also really could not give a toss !

What's worse it appears they can change the rules of the game at any point retrospectively until the beginning of time, with no right to recourse for their customers !

It's a pointless exercise in which only the certification vendors can win !

I Boycott CompTIA for reneging on lifetime certifications

I think its mainly the principle that matters

many people here have paid money to pass an exam that was adversed as a "life exam" for Comptia only to turn around and change that, several years after passing the exam.

At the end of the day its down to spending good money and time that's why it matters. Although i do agree with your comments.

I understand the Honesty and Integrity part of this and I also understand that Comptia should have done it a lot better, my point is tho that once you have the cert (in my case it was a requirement to get my MCSE:Security) do you really need to worry what happens in the future? It won't take away my reason for wanting it in the first place (MCSE:Security), it won't hinder me from getting future employment and it doesn't actually impact me NOW whether the cert is taken away from me, it's already been used for what it was needed for and that was as a bridge to get my more important certs done.

Please don't think that I am overly happy with what they have done, but what impact this has on me (and probably it should also mean to a lot of others) is that I don't waste any more money on Comptia for any further certifications or re-certifications. Why waste money on re-certifying when it doesn't actually benefit me now?

I agree, they are way too costly and offer no long term benefit for people now, this is something that Comptia are going to feel eventually but only after the end of life for the current cert holders.

I know what you mean, my MCITP is not actually taking a priority in my working life, I haven't been asked for it and it's only something that's a nice to have for me now days, it certainly hasn't held me back from good paying positions.

Unfortunately, those in the position of power are always in the position of power, nothing us serf's can really do about it other than walk away. We have two choices, accept it or walk.

Me, I am walking and I won't be getting another Comptia certification again, eventually they will wonder where their revenue has gone and the penny will drop.

I agree, however along with the 'walk away' option we can also voice our displeasure at their decision by sending an email / letter to CompTIA and telling new entrants to IT to beware !

CompTIA are only in 'a position of power' because we put them there, its easy, nobody give them any more money...

The newbie point of view.
I passed the A+ end of Nov, and i was half way through already the N+ materials when they announced the new retake policy. So i think that is very unfair.
I really unsure what to do now with the N+, because i am nearly ready, and these certs will be valid for 3 years, and i do not have anything else on my CV what is related to the it industry, and they gave me good basic knowledge(i think), and i hope they can help me to get "in".
So the N+
really, 160£....
i do not know

miflandia, if you are happy with the N+ material simply move on, enrol on a CCENT / ICND1 course at a local college or with the OU.

Or simply enrol on another networking based qualification if that is your path.

OU

Uxbridge College

TVU 1
TVU 2
TVU 3

West Thames College

See it as an oppourtunity to skip a pointless Network triva exam and learn some real networking !

On your CV, simply put - 'currently studying for CCENT / CCNA', it will look better than N+ !

Again I agree with you mate, unfortunately the way I see it is that the idea of sending an email to Comptia is pretty fruitless, the only way to really get through to them is by cutting their bottom line, do you really think that any number of emails is going to get through to them more than a decreasing bottom line would? The furor that this has already caused across various forums hasn't made them change their minds but you never know.

Simon, enough emails might make a difference yes, the 'big wigs' probably don't read forums and will say whats 300 postings out of 1.2 million, of course most of the other 1.2 million are yet to find out about it !

Once it starts to hit their bottom line I fear CompTIA as an entity might be beyond repair, its in everyones interests to get this cleared up sooner rather than later...

Hi.

I was think about that (HNC-HND) but the only option for me is the part time, the reason why i was pushing A+, N+ because i got a very crappy job (but well paid) and i really want to quit, and start something new.
And originally i planed to go the Microsoft way .
(And i have to take care of my family, so i can not afford 13K job.)
So my planes are messed up properly now.
Comparing the prices, the N+ just does not seem to worth it(164£) anymore. But i have done the A+ already and with the N+ it would count towards to the MCSA if i am lucky enough to get started.
Anyway
Thanks for the ideas.
I will look aroung..

The Open University is part time distance learning so could still fit the bill.

Well you have various options if MCSA is your goal, A+/N+, Security+ and MCDST are all electives, as are many other Microsoft exams.

In your case the N+ may make sense.

I suspect CompTIA will make changes to their proposals but we have yet to find out what they will be...

I hope they make a U-turn on that. I think i finish my study materials(AIO N+ Meyers) because i quiet like it anyway, and i found it useful. Maybe i can buy a bargain voucher as many people, change their mind about N+........

Edit:
And just poke around the cisco topics, and many post suggest there is no point to start the CCENT without some sort of experience. They expire as well. And maybe it is not as attractive on the CV if the employer does not want you to touch any cisco gear.
And i thought the CompTIA would be better start because i could move on any vendor specific work or cert....
but i feel this unfair how they change the rules, next year maybe they want us to pay 100£ every year + recert every 3 year???

CompTIA Certification Renewal Policy Clarified.

Just found this press release on CompTIA website.


Looks as though they have changed their minds

NB

Well, to be fair, that's the right thing to do.

It's actually clever in many ways.

First, they announce a dramatic change to show how commited they are to ISO compliance standards and certification quality.

Then they retract the decision to show that they are listening to 'the people'.

Finally, they given an extra year's grace to ensure that 2010 is the busiest that CompTIA has ever seen for uptake of their certs.

God, I'm so cynical, I hate me.

Ohhhh jeahhhh

That is what i am talking about.....beers2