Recent graduates in I.T / Computer Science etc

[fatp]

Just wanted to see what the recent graduates on the forum have got up to...

since you have graduated from university? uk or abroad!

Are you:

(1) Working in an I.T related Graduate Scheme e.g. Eon 2 Year Graduate scheme
(2) Working in an I.T related Graduate Job e.g 'Graduate' IT Support Analyst
(3) Working in an I.T related normal job e.g. ICT Technician / Analyst programmer
(4) Working in a non-related I.T job? - e.g. Call Centre / Admin
(5) Unemployed? - e.g. Job Seekers Allowance

Mention a little about what you do or long-term career ambitions are...

Cheers.

[BosonMichael]

Originally Posted by fatp

'Graduate' IT Support Analyst

Never seen a job title with "graduate" in it. For the most part, IT jobs don't require a college degree until you get into management. Programmers typically have a college degree because of the discipline it takes to learn the language well enough to do the job. Techs really don't need one, because we learn by doing the job... not by learning a language, then applying it.

[zimbo]

Originally Posted by BosonMichael

Never seen a job title with "graduate" in it. For the most part, IT jobs don't require a college degree until you get into management. Programmers typically have a college degree because of the discipline it takes to learn the language well enough to do the job. Techs really don't need one, because we learn by doing the job... not by learning a language, then applying it.

Its a little more popular in the uk mike Graduate jobs at CW

Originally Posted by fatp

Just wanted to see what the recent graduates on the forum have got up to...

since you have graduated from university? uk or abroad!

Are you:

(1) Working in an I.T related Graduate Scheme e.g. Eon 2 Year Graduate scheme
(2) Working in an I.T related Graduate Job e.g 'Graduate' IT Support Analyst
(3) Working in an I.T related normal job e.g. ICT Technician / Analyst programmer
(4) Working in a non-related I.T job? - e.g. Call Centre / Admin
(5) Unemployed? - e.g. Job Seekers Allowance

Mention a little about what you do or long-term career ambitions are...

Cheers.

Im graduating this year with a 1st class in computer networking and im looking at more or less the following options:

1. M.Sc Computer Forensics at either Cranfield or Glasgow uni

2. Im in the process of applying to the following to enter their graduate programs:
IBM, Microsoft, HP, Dell and American Express

3. I have been offered a work placement scheme for a company in Dubai

Honestly out of the 3 i want number 2 cause from their im set! Later in life i would consider the M.Sc still as its an area that highly interests me. You must be thinking that im at Oxbridge for having such goals? the secret is to work your butt off in uni cause i flunked bad in school and proving myself now after school - im the only one in the 90 people in my class with a certification and some real work experience and im not expecting a 60k salary when im done - ask the majority in my major what their salary next year will be and thats their answer!

[BosonMichael]

Originally Posted by zimbo

Its a little more popular in the uk mike Graduate jobs at CW

Ah, I see! Still... as I said, by and large, they're programmer positions, not tech positions.

[Rob1234]

I graduated 2 years ago spent around 6 months looking for an IT job, I currently do 1st line Support with a little bit of second as well.

My long term career goal would be to work in IT security.

Zimbo congrats on the 1st class I got a 2:1 was so close to getting a first just missed due to my dissertation. Any of your three options sound good I applied for a few graduate schemes very tough interview process got to the final two for a couple, in some big companies down London but just missed out, but yeah if you can get them you are pretty sorted they will look after you and aim to move you up the ladder quickly.

The Dubai job sounds interesting and will look very good on your CV.

[derkit]

Originally Posted by zimbo

You must be thinking that im at Oxbridge for having such goals? the secret is to work your butt off in uni cause i flunked bad in school and proving myself now after school -

Unfortunately I managed it the other way, sailed through GCSEs/A-Levels and then somehow screwed up my degree (but fortunately still got one!) - now I have the ambition and desire to go far, I so damn wish I had it a few years ago when I was actually doing my degree.

(Part of the reason why I want to go back, and do a degree properly this time via OU!)

[Fergal1982]

Meh, I dropped out of my (Genetics) degree, and went looking for an IT job without so much as a standard grade in computing. Now Im a software developer. Happy days!

Conversely, one of the other guys at my work recently finished his degree, and is working at the same level as me.

[westernkings]

So how does one compete with a kid with a University Degree in Computing ? When I reach the age of 22/23 (19 now) with 3 or so years in the Industry, will I be competing with a Uni kid who has just finished his degree ? or will he still trounce me ?

[kevicho]

Originally Posted by westernkings

So how does one compete with a kid with a University Degree in Computing ? When I reach the age of 22/23 (19 now) with 3 or so years in the Industry, will I be competing with a Uni kid who has just finished his degree ? or will he still trounce me ?

Dont discount on the job experience, employers prefer experience to most things.

And certify yourself (not in that way, i mean get MCPS and other certs relevant to your work experience)

[dmarsh]

It entirely depends on the individuals concerned, a bright graduate thats worked hard and got a bit of work experience will beat the person with average work experience.

Someone with exceptional work experience will beat the average graduate.

Trouble is will you be able to get exceptional work experience without any qualifications ?

Ok you can work your way up but how long will it take ?

The payoff for having a degree is no where near as certain as it once was, however a good degree in the right subject will generally pay off over a career on average.

People from Oxbridge for instance generally have careers non qualified people can only dream of.

Many people do well in IT with no higher qualifications at all however, I also know people in other industries, sales for instance well into six figures with no qualifications to their name. I know professors who get relatively poorly paid. So qualifications are in no way directly related to pay or promotion.

The problem in my mind is if you don't get any qualifications how do you make sure you are one of the lucky ones that succeeds anyway ? How do you ensure you get the lucky breaks ? How do you advance your career if you get given largely menial tasks ?

Generally these are the sorts of questions that people are asking on this forum, how to land first job, how to advance with only first line experience, etc.

[westernkings]

See, it boggles my nut thinking that how can 3 years DOING THE JOB be worth less than a peice of paper mearly saying "You SHOULD be able to". All because of mummy and daddies money I suppose, My mum wanted me to go to Oxbridge (Oxford to be honest because that is where she studied) but I said No and didn't bother.

I prefer to work, more fun and more usefull, Plus i'm not one who can learn by sitting around and being TOLD what it is i'm learning.

[kevicho]

Originally Posted by westernkings

See, it boggles my nut thinking that how can 3 years DOING THE JOB be worth less than a peice of paper mearly saying "You SHOULD be able to". All because of mummy and daddies money I suppose, My mum wanted me to go to Oxbridge (Oxford to be honest because that is where she studied) but I said No and didn't bother.

I prefer to work, more fun and more usefull, Plus i'm not one who can learn by sitting around and being TOLD what it is i'm learning.

Well if this is the case how about asking your parents to fund your IT training (if they can) if not then you will have to self sacrifice time and money in the next few years, to be on a par.

There is always the Open university as well if you want to go down that track.

One thing about getting breaks, join up with the British computer society, it has a job portal and regular meetings among other things, and keep posting on boards like this.

[dmarsh]

Originally Posted by westernkings

See, it boggles my nut thinking that how can 3 years DOING THE JOB be worth less than a peice of paper mearly saying "You SHOULD be able to".

Experience can be overated as well, if you do the same menial tasks for three years then you don't have three years quality experience.

Someone who's been exposed to more stuff in an academic context could well perform better, with a few months experience they could be outperforming you with three years and be better equipped for more advanced tasks.

You do have a point, most jobs only require largely vocational knoweldge, for these there is arguably little point in college, they can be taught just as well as apprenticeships, the trouble is making sure you first land the job and secondly get the on the job training, many companies only pay lip service to PDP's etc.

If you want to become a brain surgeon, rocket scientist, or nuclear physicist you have little choice but to go to college. Sometimes learning skills in one context allows an individual to be highly effective in other contexts, Richard Feynman used his genius and physics training to make breakthoughs in many fields. Another example is Jason Scott Lee who used his gymnastic training to transfer to Jeet Kune Do and play Bruce in 'Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story'.

I prefer to work, more fun and more usefull, Plus i'm not one who can learn by sitting around and being TOLD what it is i'm learning.

A good course should not spoon feed the student and tell them what to think, the student should bring their own perspective and interpret what they are being taught. Higher level courses will expect the student to not only interpret but reinterpret and extend what they've been taught to create new work.

What if you sit around being told what to do at work ? Many people are 9-5ers, they put in minimum effort at work to do their jobs. Are you someone who spends all day on facebook and leaves early or are you someone who puts in a 50-60 hour week, then goes home to study for certs, read up on new techniques, and build that new project ? The years experience measure is therefore whoefully ineffectual.

What are the chances Google would exist if their creators didn't go to Stanford ? Would Ian Bell and David Braben have created Elite if they didn't go to Cambridge ? To really excel at something you need to bring together the right people and ideas at the right time, both work and college often provide this.

Of course there is this :-

Famous Successful College Drop Outs

but who can seriously reccomend dropping out of college as a general method for success ? Its a valid approach only for some individuals and how do I know you are one of those ? By its nature the forum advice is therefore generalist.

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by fatp

Are you:
(1) Working in an I.T related Graduate Scheme e.g. Eon 2 Year Graduate scheme
(2) Working in an I.T related Graduate Job e.g 'Graduate' IT Support Analyst
(3) Working in an I.T related normal job e.g. ICT Technician / Analyst programmer
(4) Working in a non-related I.T job? - e.g. Call Centre / Admin
(5) Unemployed? - e.g. Job Seekers Allowance

I guess I’m option 3, ‘working in an IT job’.

The way this thread has gone it looks like the old experience vs qualifications debate all over again.

As said it depends on the individual, I know people who have worked in an IT support job for over 10 years and have not even logged onto a domain controller. They are working in desktop support and seem to be happy with that. So even though they have “10 years commercial experience” when you break it down its all related to desktop support so it’s not much help for a server admin job.

I have 6 years IT experience all in: 9 months corporate helpdesk , 1 year server admin and all the rest is 3rd line, network installs and also consultancy.

Originally Posted by fatp

Mention a little about what you do or long-term career ambitions are...

Career ambitions? Tough question but I really just want to improve my technical skills and see what happens after that.